Treasure Division - all worlds

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Veracity
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Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:01 pm

When I started gaming with the group, and for many many years, we had the following treasure division system:
[list=]Put all the loot from that day's melee into a pile
Do identifies
Estimate values
Total the values of all items (at sale value) plus all coins and gems
Divide by the number of characters in the party (including any special NPCs who assisted us)
Result = gp value we each get
If someone wants a particular item, then they "buy" it from the party
If they don't have enough gp to buy it, then they write an IOU for the remainder to the party
If more than 1 party member wants an item, then the highest bidder gets it
[/list]

I recall everyone being satisfied with that method. It divided gp values evenly across the party members. And, if more than 1 person could use an item, it went to the person who valued it most.

I would like to do that again - in all worlds - by default.

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Hazen
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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Hazen » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:54 pm

Wasn't this the method of treasure division suggested by Brianna that we adopted fairly recently but not universally? It's a good system, but perhaps each party should role play its merits.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby MercyDrake » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:43 pm

This is where things are currently:

drow: mwk long sword (Mercy), chain armor (-), cloak of spider climb (Sedon);
duergar: mkw dagger (Chip), mithril breast plate (Mercy), ring (Fuma);
mountain dwarf: mwk axe (Eclipse), mithril half plate (Eclipse), amulet (Eclipse);
table: several papers (Fuma), 200gp (Fuma), 2 rubies (Chip)

Mercy has also said she has an extra long sword she wants to make available to party members, but it is only available because she took the Githyanki sword when we unpinned the beast from the wall. Maybe, if we're going to do this, we should revisit all the things that party members have absorbed during this travel? Or is it too hard to go back and just start now?

Mercy's comment on the suggestion would be, "I'd rather see items we find that particular party member can use, used by those party members. I do not care about the value of such items. I want to make the pack stronger. If you want to say that all items are pack property regardless of who uses them that would be acceptable. Material items don't have much value to me. Neither do IOUs."
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Veracity
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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:05 pm

I don't think the character discussions work out. And, frankly, I'm very uncomfortable having them.

The tendency to look at treasure from current battle only is one of the problems. Some of us aleady have + weapons. Some do not. Some of us have magic items. Some do not. In order to do what you propose we would need to ALL keep track of what EVERYONE has gotten since we started and constantly level it out. I don't see our group putting in that kind of time and effort.

Also, personally, I very much dislike the "voting" aspect of asigning magic items and weapons. I was quitting Brianna's last world because my PC was not allowed a gp share of anything - so she could not buy pluses to her existing items. From my point of view, my PC was assigned whatever was "left over" that the fighters didn't want since she "not a fighter" even when it was an item she could well use. I felt helpless as a player. I'm a woman and I LIKE to go shopping. But I was forced to take stuff I felt I couldn't really use and not allowed to save up to buy stuff I wanted.

If you really want to know how "voting" and "deciding each time as a party" works, out ask Igor how his PC fared in Worms World...

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Veracity
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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:16 pm

Wasn't this the method of treasure division suggested by Brianna that we adopted fairly recently but not universally? It's a good system, but perhaps each party should role play its merits.


I believe we did start out with dice rolls for who "got to pick first." And then folks started getting luck stones to skew that. And then someone (Igor? Brianna?) proposed we do the buy out method to level out wealth more fairly. But we did do the buy out method for like 10 years... And as far as I can remember, we didn't have hard feelings with that method. And "wealth" did get distributed across the board.

I believe we later had an all G-Aligned party that decided to try assigning items and having M hold all the party money. In my opinion that broke down. PCs who liked to lead determined what was best for others. And the fun of saving up to buy something special was gone.

As a person, and as a PC, I would not willing join such a party.

I enjoy free will. I enjoy saving up for a special item - even if no one else thinks it is best for me.

I don't understand why we are still doing the "assignment" method. We did not talk that out as parties. And we did not talk that out as players. And it is the method we've used least, historically.

Why is it still happening?

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:20 pm

It is my hope that we will discuss this here - in the forum - as players - before the next game. I do NOT want to have this discussion in game as PCs.

As PCs we have an obligation to roll play that we crave gems or weapons or scrolls or want a Lawful Good plan or an NC plan, etc. Then we aren't talking about what is fair and fun for players.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Hazen » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:52 pm

Veracity wrote:It is my hope that we will discuss this here - in the forum - as players - before the next game. I do NOT want to have this discussion in game as PCs.

If we (including the respective DMs) do agree to this method, how would you suggest that it be introduced in-game?

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:25 pm

Hurdles in the two worlds we are currently playing:
--In M's world, we have been transported to an apocalyptic future, where we don't currently know of anywhere to have items appraised or to buy stuff.
--In B's world, we have entered a region surrounded by impenetrable mist, so we are similarly limitted.

However, in the DMG, there are rationales for pricing items.. number of uses, number of pluses, number of functions, versatility. There is a Logic to values. So we could apply that logic, based on what we can discren about an item, even without a formal Identify. If we turn out to be way off, we can adjust later or decide we did our best and leave it stand. (PCs can always trade if they want.)

We can nominate the most likely PC to bring it up. Or we can have an NPC talk about it to give us the idea. Yes, that's contrived. But, to me, it's better than playing out character flawed biases and having us argue and break up the party.

BTW, I am not concerned about any particular assignments of items we have found so far in either of the two worlds. I'm not trying to go back in time and "fix" who got the deed to the Windmill or who picked up what armor or weapon... I'm petitioning for the right to choose and to "save up" for things, individually. And I'm trying to even out gp values in the long term - rather than looking at individual treasure hauls.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Seston Tempiri » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:26 pm

Some quick thoughts:

I do think player agreements can be easier to manage than character agreements. That said, some players like the chaos, erm, story of character agreements. I'm open to a consensus from players if that can be reached for my game.

It is harder to use GP value to balance treasure in 5E given the lack of ability to turn gold into significant treasure. I'll say that given that I strive to ensure the opportunities for everyone balance out over the medium-short run. So it might not balance by encounter, but it should by episode arc. But there are some limitations based upon what works in the adventure.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Caelesti » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:31 pm

I recall Igor pushing that treasure division method, because he joined a group while already reasonably equipped, and 'all' the treasure went to others, because they were deemed to need it more, even though he did more than his share of the work. It was particularly annoying when something showed up that actually was a benefit, but it benefited others more. I related that to going to work and having pay distributed based on need.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Brianna Sollandry » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:47 pm

(I edited the actual player names in previous notes.)

As a DM, I do not dictate how parties decide to divide treasure. It's simply not my call. When the Tarrastra party decided to pool treasure and "assign" items, with Carric keeping the gold, I shrugged.

I did make several attempts to give out hauls of multiple items with one item specifically intended to "fit" each character - from how I saw it. If I recall, in every case, your character, in particular, was uninterested in the item I had in mind for her and you immediately said "I will take it if I have to and sell it to get something I really want".

Eventually, I stopped handing out treasure.

I am comfortable with that decision. ;)

In Ravenloft, you will find what you find. I could toss in a few "keyed to a character" items, but considering how that worked out in Tarrastra, nopers.

I am fairly certain that the Deed to the Windmill was deemed to belong to the party as a whole and only later did Caldor (was it?) decided to claim it was his and say that the hags were squatting on his property. I took that as a joke. Both you and I were dialed in remotely at the time, so it was not a matter of me being in the same room and having extra body language or whatever to guide that impression. You and I simply jumped to opposite conclusions.

I agree with Seston, however, that it is best if the players decide on a mutually comfortable method and that the characters simply fall into line with that decision, regardless of whether their "personality" would prefer something more greedy or more altruistic or more meritocratic or whatever.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:15 pm

People have their own visions of what their characters want and what they want for their characters. We should be allowed to make our own choices - even if they are dumb choices in the eyes of the DM or other players.

There are random treasure generators in the DMG. I have no problem with those being used.

If someone follows a particular diety and makes it known they are adventuring with the goal of finding the "Long Lost Lute of Lucianna" then I could see the DM eventually having it turn it up. Otherwise, there is no reason to "plant" items.

It's not always about "maximizing" - sometimes it's about who you see yourself as.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:18 pm

Deed to the Windmill... Caldor


I believe Caldor originally picked it up at the haunted house and carried it around without indicating one way or the other that he was claiming it. But since he had it in his possession we started calling it his. And we starting telling the hags he owned the Windmill. And then he ran with it too.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:21 pm

My understanding is that:
(a) there are communities (though few and far between) where we will be able to buy/barter items
(b) we expect to eventually be able to pass through the mist
(c) we expect to eventually return the apocalyptic world to "normal" and/or move through portals to other planes

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:50 pm

I'll say that given that I strive to ensure the opportunities for everyone balance out over the medium-short run. So it might not balance by encounter, but it should by episode arc. But there are some limitations based upon what works in the adventure.

Seston and Brianna,
I believe that you both have tried to balance party loot over time: planting items with particular PCs in mind, distributing types of items, consulting the DMG for suggested level wealth, etc. But we, as PCs and as players, don't see the big picture.

Caldor doesn't remember what each of his fellow PCs has gotten over the last few sessions. Nor does Kili. Nor do I, etc. We each only see the current treasure from the current encounter and what we each think we deserve or what we each think others should or shouldn't have. That perception in no way accounts for what each of us has already gotten when there "wasn't enough to go around" or when we found mostly weapons that only 1 or 2 PCs could use. So, even if we are trying to maximize who can best use what, we end up unbalanced.

I tried asking that someone who games at the table, in person, keep track and do a table of what we found and assigned - in total throughout adventures. Instead, we get spotty lists and nothing that brings it all together.

Brianna used to put the time into that in Dargas. Since then, no one has had the time or inclination to take up the cause. So we don't even know accurately (IMO) what our party total gp is, for instance. We need a different method. One that doesn't rely on us remembering what everyone got back in time.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Seston Tempiri » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:16 pm

It's also why I've always had a soft spot for boons and talismans. It's easier to make everyone feel special and accounted for.

I definitely agree that the parties need some mechanism for division and an accurate ledger. I also confess that tracking your treasure isn't something I see as typically my responsibility. Personal preference there, but I do feel the party needs to track their inventory.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Hazen » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:15 pm

Veracity wrote:
Deed to the Windmill... Caldor


I believe Caldor originally picked it up at the haunted house and carried it around without indicating one way or the other that he was claiming it. But since he had it in his possession we started calling it his. And we starting telling the hags he owned the Windmill. And then he ran with it too.

Yes, Calder doesn't believe the windmill is his, or even the party's, but it was a good goad to use on the hags.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Brianna Sollandry » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:18 pm

Seston Tempiri wrote:II definitely agree that the parties need some mechanism for division and an accurate ledger. I also confess that tracking your treasure isn't something I see as typically my responsibility. Personal preference there, but I do feel the party needs to track their inventory.

When I was a player, I was all over this.

As a DM, nope - not my job.

As I said, the players need to decide how they want to handle loot - and as a corollary, if that involves "equal shares", it is completely up to the players to do the accounting.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby MercyDrake » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:26 pm

Suggestion I'd like to throw out:

In my Friday game we make a list of all the items retrieved and allow the PCs to put their names next to all items that are of interest. If only one PC wants a particular item, that PC may get it if something more desirable isn't available. If more than one PC expresses interest (regardless of whether the item is usable by that PC), then the contesting PCs roll d100 and the highest rolling PC gets it. We usually adjudicate the most desirable items first, contested or not,

In general the PCs are reasonable - if a PC gets an item, they usually withdraw from other items until all PCs have gotten something. The process then repeats for the remaining items (if any).
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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby MercyDrake » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:43 pm

And I agree with Brianna - it isn't the DM's job to do the accounting, or to try to be equitable.

I also think DMs trying to gauge what would be good for a particular PC may or may not be received as desirable by that character or equitable with a +5 holy vorpal sword of frost some other PC wound up with. I know that when I'm a DM, I put specific things the characters need into the treasure mix, but if they sell them, they sell them. If they lose them, oh well. The PCs should have the right to do illogical things with the items they find - including leaving them all behind.
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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby MercyDrake » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:17 pm

For what it's worth:

Mercy started with a high quality sword. She has since picked up and replaced two sets of mundane leather armor, a set of mundane arrows, and the githyanki sword. She also took the helm of an orc that she left behind in the Tormhall. She got a clan symbol from a drow house and some clean clothing from Ch'olk. She possesses 25 gp.

Kili has 15 gp. Kili picked up three scrolls - bless, prot poison, and spiritual weapon. He traded the prot poison for components to be able to cast gentle repose on Orpheus. He picked up three sets of bones, leaving two in crypts, and burying the third in the Baronia cemetery.
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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:29 pm

Mercy, your suggestion is well-intentioned and explains why you behave as you do during our treasure divisions. My problem with that approach is that the goal is "for everyone to get something" after every battle in which there is loot.

IMO, the goal should be to make sure everyone has equitable values over time.

We aren't going to go up against exactly the right number of bad guys and who have loot that matches our own PC classes. So saying, "we need to give every PC something" doesn't mean every PC gets something they can actually use, nor does it mean every PC gets an item of equitable value.

Equitabitly (if that's a word?) happens over the course of multiple loots over multiple months and years. When you divide the *values* after each loot collection, then each PC rises at roughly the same rate. (Some may bid higher for certain items or may donate to their temple, etc.)

Whereas something like, "We're going to give Dilbert, the Wizard, the spare masterwork longsword because he didn't get anything yet today" doesn't make sense to me.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Brianna Sollandry » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:21 am

Veracity wrote:People have their own visions of what their characters want and what they want for their characters. We should be allowed to make our own choices - even if they are dumb choices in the eyes of the DM or other players.

Talon, the (several) times I planted treasure hoards that had "one appropriate item for every character", I was very careful to make sure that every item was equal in value.

Every time I did that, every character except yours said "I want THAT item", pointing to the item I had intended for them, no other player pointed to "somebody else's item", and everybody was happy - except you. You didn't want anybody else's item, but the item which was completely usable for you? You didn't want that either, and decided you'd take it and sell it for half price, eventually.

Every time.

You could have used it, but, since it didn't fit YOUR vision of your character, it went straight into your pack, waiting the chance to be sold.

Do you really wonder why I stopped distributing "equal value magic items" to the whole party? It was, specifically, because you found what I "placed" for your character uninteresting to the point that you were unwilling even to try it out. It was, to your eye, a "half value" item, since you had no use for it other than simply selling it.

I stopped making "special" treasure hordes.

I stopped giving out treasure hordes at all.

In Ravenloft, you find what the module says what you find. I will make no effort to "customize" treasure. You schooled me.

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Veracity
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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:58 am

Brianna, It was wonderful of you to consider all of us in the treasure you placed. I was very stupid. I was frustrated at not getting gp of my own to pursue plans of my own and was blinded by that. This tread is not intended to beat up on you in any way. I appreciate your efforts very much. I'm sorry I lacked foresight.
-Talon

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Hazen » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:00 am

Veracity wrote:Equitabitly (if that's a word?) happens over the course of multiple loots over multiple months and years. When you divide the *values* after each loot collection, then each PC rises at roughly the same rate.

It sounds to me as if you're motivated to implement equitable treasure division over multiple sessions - as opposed to individual loot splitting. When Brianna was a player, she had that motivation, and kept track of this stuff. It now sounds like you'd like to step into that role of keeping track of character wealth and valuing treasure. I'd have no problem with that.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:44 am

I'm willing to step into the role of tracking loot. But to make that feasible, I need someone "on the other end" who is sitting at the table - to make the nightly lists. My audio breaks up and the folks at the table continue talking and I miss stuff.

But creating the tables and such offline I can certainly do.

-Veracity

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:13 am

Still begs the question of assigning values in closed systems and being able to "buy" from the party.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:19 am

Brianna,
I have sympathy for your frustrations and apologize for offending you.If feel that the current party in your current world is being underserved in treasure by my presence, I will withdraw.
-Veracity

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Brianna Sollandry » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:40 am

Veracity wrote:If feel that the current party in your current world is being underserved in treasure by my presence, I will withdraw.

Odd response. I said that the party will get whatever treasure the module provides. I don't see what that has to do with "your presence".

As Seston said (or implied), in his and my 5e campaigns, you should not assume that you can freely buy and sell whatever you want whenever you want it. We're back to 2e Dargas, where "what you find is what you can use". In retrospect, I regret the "magic item shop" aspect of V3/V3.5: to my eye, that encouraged minimaxing equipment, rather than actually using stuff that you found.

This thread is your proposal for dealing with that reality in a "fair" way to all characters. If you want to accumulate multiple sessions worth of loot and then divide it up "equitably", somebody will need to track it and value it.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:52 am

If someone "at the table" will send me nightly lists, I will be happy to track and value. I will undertake to create tables and I will modify my own PCs such that they can each cast Identify.

Again, I propose that dividing values, "buying from the party," and issuing IOUs be part of that, as well as trading later if it seems logical. But not forcing anyone to trade.

I would like some guidance from Brianna on what programs she used to create her tables. And if I could share some space on Ludus to post the tables (as Brianna did), that would be helpful too.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Brianna Sollandry » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:08 pm

I used Emacs. Which is to say, I directly authored HTML. :)

I had a "template", so to speak, which was a file with all my normal tables with an empty row in each, and I duplicated and filled in rows for each item. I manually inserted each row in the numerically appropriate (by value) place in the table.

And then I used Emacs's Lisp interpreter to add up the values.

Which is to say, no automation. It was a lot of work.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Hazen » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:27 pm

Brianna Sollandry wrote:In retrospect, I regret the "magic item shop" aspect of V3/V3.5: to my eye, that encouraged minimaxing equipment, rather than actually using stuff that you found.

I agree. While such a system existed in the world, it made sense that characters used it, but it made magic items less "special" - especially items that were chock full of attributes. I still like finding magic items that are particularly useful for each character. That adds to the heroic aspect of the game, but I understand that that takes extra work on the part of the DM, and could be frustrating if a character just tosses it aside. Perhaps such rejection would be less likely in a world where the only magic available for purchase were things like spell items (i.e. potions, scrolls, wands, etc).

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby MercyDrake » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:09 pm

One of the most fun things, I think, is when you wind up with a treasure item and have no idea what is does or how best to use it. For example, I have a character in another game who found a magic vending machine in an iceberg (don't ask). She can put in coins, can ask/wish for particular items, and the machine vends them for her. Mundane items only, but the one time we really needed one more 50' rope it came in quite handy. Yes that's one real use in two years of playing time, but it was critical for moving the party forward at that juncture, and it was exciting when the idea to use the machine worked. It made for a memorable session.

{We went waterskiing to catch the bad guy, using phantom steeds pulling ropes to get our large fighter across the water. He used a hunk of ice as a water chariot and made his DEX rolls.}
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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Seston Tempiri » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:27 pm

This discussion has been robust.

I'll add my basic philosophy on treasure.

First, does it make sense in the context?
The treasure needs to be part of the world, story, and inhabitants that own it. It needs to make sense.

Second, is it level appropriate.
Overall, treasure should be level appropriate. Otherwise, characters get in over their heads too quick or the encounters get messy because the encounter math stops working.

Third, overtime is there something for everyone?
I try to avoid handing out anything as random treasure that is meant for a player. I find it imprecise. Things get overlooked, undiscovered, or undervalued. It simply doesn't work. UNLESS there's a big show. If it's clearly a bigger part of their story, they'll keep it even if it's useless otherwise. But in general, I consider it enough that there's are things each character can use at some point.


I also like that 5E moved away from shopping spree fantasy. That you can't buy improvements makes the world balance more easily and keeps magic a genuine reward. It also makes the character bigger than the equipment. Too often high level 3E meant ensuring you had the right basic equipment or else. (And not only the Epic stuff we played)

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Hazen » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:51 pm

One thing that is slow and inefficient is having the DM slowly read off the treasure from the module while we slowly type what he says - including asking him to repeat things. Perhaps instead of that, the DM could block off the text we shouldn't see, and we could just take a picture of the treasure list and email it to all.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Seston Tempiri » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:31 pm

I find typing it into Game Table works well. It would work better if GT copied from Word efficiently.

I'll wait until my 10 year mark with the group before bringing up Roll20.

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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:48 pm

Summary =

Have we agreed to the following?

--We will go with a method that distributes gp and magic values roughly evenly over time.
--The method should allow individual choice.
--The method should NOT require DMs to "plant" items unless it relates to a particular quest.
--The method should account for the "closed" systems in both current worlds (not being able to shop for anything we want).
--The method should have ways of "appraising" an item even when we can't immediately discern everything about an item.

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Hazen
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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Hazen » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:02 pm

Veracity wrote:Summary =

Have we agreed to the following?
Um, no. As far as I can tell, I'm the only player who has expressed partial support for such a scheme (as long as I don't have to do the bookkeeping for it). Sounds like you're jumping the gun on assuming player consensus.

Veracity wrote:--We will go with a method that distributes gp and magic values roughly evenly over time.
Sounds good to me in theory.

Veracity wrote:--The method should allow individual choice.
Of course.

Veracity wrote:--The method should NOT require DMs to "plant" items unless it relates to a particular quest.
Yes, but what?! This is just a bizarre statement. It's their world.

Veracity wrote:--The method should account for the "closed" systems in both current worlds (not being able to shop for anything we want).
Okay.

Veracity wrote:--The method should have ways of "appraising" an item even when we can't immediately discern everything about an item.
It's not at all clear how this can be done, but I'll reserve judgement until I hear the proposed details. In other words, I do not "agree to the following" until I know the details and say I agree to them.

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Veracity
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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:38 am

Being aware of the short amount of game time tonight, I've been assertive (and yes provocative) in trying to get us to start coming to a consensus. These are all at the proposal stage until we all weigh in and agree. But that doesn't mean we should debate until Christmas... Come on, guys. Let's start wrapping up.

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Veracity
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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:46 am

Veracity wrote:
--The method should NOT require DMs to "plant" items unless it relates to a particular quest.
Yes, but what?! This is just a bizarre statement. It's their world.

Both DMs commented on not being expected to plant PC-specific items for us to find unless it is essential to a particular quest. Our treasure division system has to account for that fact. We can't assume that "there's something for everyone" in every loot haul.

So I think that was a perfectly reasonable statement.

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Veracity
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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Veracity » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:20 am

Veracity wrote:
--The method should have ways of "appraising" an item even when we can't immediately discern everything about an item.
It's not at all clear how this can be done, but I'll reserve judgement until I hear the proposed details. In other words, I do not "agree to the following" until I know the details and say I agree to them.

Ideas:
--If we can detect magic on an item, it has higher value than non-magic items.
--If someone is able to attune to it and it seems useful, it has highter value -to us- than if we can't tell anything except it is magic.
--If prayers indicate "weal" that's a higher value than "woe."

PCs can opt to take on magic items that are still a mystery to us, at a lower price and maybe they will win the jackpot later.
PCs can opt to take on magic items with "woe" as they might be "woe" for some classes and "weal" for others or might be used to trick bad guys later, but should get those for a lower price too.

It would look something like this:
ItemX: Magic Y, Attuned Y, Some Known Properties Y, Class-Specific N, Daily Uses 3, Weal = Rates a 6 out of 10
ItemY: Magic Y, Attuned N, We saw a Lich use it to cast Fireballs but we can't get it to work, Might be Class-Specific, Daily Uses Unknown, Weal/Woe to G-aligned PC unknown = Rates a 4 out of 10.
ItemZ: Magic N, Masterwork Scimitar, We have 2 PCs who could use a scimitar = Rates a 1 out of 10.

Not saying that's exactly how we'd rate the above.

Yoshi
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Re: Treasure Division - all worlds

Postby Yoshi » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:26 pm

I have a strong preference for Full Collaboration---agreeing as a group who gets what, and not caring or worrying about any sort of "equity".

That said, I'm fine going with the flow. At which point, I don't care what mechanism we use.


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