Need a Ruling

Seston's 5th Edition Meat Grinder Dungeon Crawl Campaign

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Veracity
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Need a Ruling

Postby Veracity » Wed May 16, 2018 1:00 pm

Well we are down a lot. But so might be our "opponents."

Before next game... Need a ruling...

I know that I can't swap out my special Druid Catagory spells slots for ordinary Druid spells. For instance, I can't swap out Darkness for Call Lightning. But when it comes to casting Healing Word at higher levels by sacrificing "an L2 or L3 spell slot" - can I sacrifice Darkness for L3 Healing Word?

I can't find any information on that one way or the other in the PHb. And it might matter A LOT in the next session. However, any president should be carefully considered....

Worg awaits with baited breath... :D

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Veracity
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Re: Need a Ruling

Postby Veracity » Wed May 16, 2018 1:02 pm

On another spell topic... Worgs can speak and move around. So I've been playing Eclipse that she can cast in Worg form but can't cast spells with material components because her material components morphed into her worg body. Is that kosher?

Seston Tempiri
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Re: Need a Ruling

Postby Seston Tempiri » Thu May 17, 2018 5:17 pm

Looking into it.

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Veracity
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Re: Need a Ruling

Postby Veracity » Tue May 22, 2018 10:48 am

Please also take a look at the Druid Wild Forms table in the Guide to Everything and let me know if I can use those as published when choosing a wild shape for my current level? It would have a lot of time to be able to use them straight out of the book. But you need to make sure there aren't any that would be in your world.

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Veracity
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Re: Need a Ruling

Postby Veracity » Tue May 22, 2018 10:49 am

Check there aren't any that would NOT be logical for your world.

Seston Tempiri
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Re: Need a Ruling

Postby Seston Tempiri » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:16 pm

Spellcasting in Wild Shape:

You should not be casting when using wild shape. I should have caught this and paid closer attention. It's allowed at 18th level, but that's too high an ability to give as freebie due to Worg form. In theory a few shapes could talk, so this is more about what abilities transfer.


Wild Shapes Available:


All the tables are fine. You can pick one to be your home table (swamp, I assume) and we can discuss which other forms you've seen while adventuring.

Healing

I'm confused about this one. Druid Circle spells are for Circles of the Land isn't Eclipse a Circle of the Moon?

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Veracity
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Healing

Postby Veracity » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:16 pm

I'm confused about this one. Druid Circle spells are for Circles of the Land isn't Eclipse a Circle of the Moon?

Gosh Darn! That's my fault, mis-memory. It's her Tielfling bonus spells not Druid-related. See Players p43 "Infernal legacy." Can she sacrifice those slots to do healing on others?

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Veracity
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Wild Shapes Available

Postby Veracity » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:32 pm

All the tables are fine. You can pick one to be your home table (swamp, I assume) and we can discuss which other forms you've seen while adventuring.

Because of her "thing" about Owlbears, I'd say "Forest" would be her origins. But both Tielfling tribes and Worg packs do roam and, based on topography of the world, I'd say "Grasslands" and "Coast" are also familiar, as well as "Hill."

Maybe on "Mountain" and "Swamp" as those both exist in nearby topography, I think. But weren't her main stomping grounds.

I would say the ones that are out (not applicable) are: "Arctic," "Underwater," and "Desert."

"Underdark" was not familiar to her until recently. So that will depend on what she has encountered so far...I assume the giant worms fall more into the monster category so they don't count. Right?

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Veracity
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Casting in Wildshape

Postby Veracity » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:18 pm

You should not be casting when using wild shape. I should have caught this and paid closer attention. It's allowed at 18th level, but that's too high an ability to give as freebie...

Being able to cast in any beast shape is, indeed, very powerful, I agree. Even just casting as a Worg with both V and S is too powerful? Okay, I agree.
In theory a few shapes could talk, so this is more about what abilities transfer.


Okay. Let's see if there are any just V spells, then, for Druids/Tieflings for forms, like Worg, that can speak...

Thaumaturgy L0
Fairie Fire, Healing Word L1
Earthbind, Warding Wind L2
L3 N/A
L4 N/A
Geas L5

That's pretty limited. Thaumaturgy is a bonus Cantrip she gets as a Tiefling. And it's mainly used for "flavor." The other spells are pretty specific. And there aren't many of them. None, that I can find, for L3 and L4 spells. And only 1 L5 spell. (Haven't look further than L5.)

Phase the V-spells-only ability in later (but before 18th) or be able to do it now?

It doesn't seem overbearing to me. But it's your call. I'm not a good rules balancer person. I'm just a player with a fun talking beast form.

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Veracity
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Spells

Postby Veracity » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:24 pm

Here' a link to a website where you can sort based on spells V, S, M categories.

http://donjon.bin.sh/5e/spells/

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Veracity
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Re: Need a Ruling

Postby Veracity » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:34 pm

My other "Laymen's Suggestion" would be to rule that, because Eclipse can wild shape into a Worg and cast V spells as Worg, she can't shift that extra time per day as a Worg. The benefit to the party of her casting V as Worg is really the Healing Word spell. That benefit could be balanced against being a Worg more often per day.

Being able to shift more often gives her more hit points and healing for herself and maybe helps her stay in direct melee, as a fighter, longer. Whereas, being able to cast Healing Word without shifting back and forth, means she can faster assist damaged party members but drains slots that could have been used for her offensive melee spells.

Trade offs.

Seston Tempiri
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Re: Need a Ruling

Postby Seston Tempiri » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:03 pm

Healing as a Worg

Being able to heal others while a worg is a huge bonus--and one I'd say definitely surpasses the once per day extra shift. I like the idea of pursuing this as an option, but it needs to be the center of its own quest. So it's a no for now, but something I'm open to Eclipse pursuing.

Yoshi
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Re: Need a Ruling

Postby Yoshi » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:16 am

Just because you can speak in wild shape does not necessarily mean you can enunciate clearly enough to cast V spells. Your call, of course, but I would be inclined to follow the rules as written.

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Re: Need a Ruling

Postby Seston Tempiri » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:39 am

It's the concurrent versatility of being in Wild Shape and casting spells that makes it so powerful. Allowing a level of versatility that allows a character to tank and heal at maximum capacity for their level doesn't seem like a wise choice from a game balance perspective. It would result in increased encounter power that might be too much for other party members. Gonna have to stick with no worg spells.

The extra wild shape doesn't create the concurrency problem, as it simply extends an existing state.


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